Wheres the new snapshot @jlv

[Haberfield24]

if you want to play render simulator, go for it. im looking for good gameplay.

I personally (and many others), have atleast 15 other racers "render simulator" skins on the pro starting gate with 0 performance issues. If its an issue and you want good gameplay you can simply not download every Tom, Dick and Harry's skins. There's also stick figure replacement packs if you're that concerned about gameplay.

The only time i've seen you compete this year you were killing people with 0 respect of other peoples laps in a pro quali server. Not to shit on an OG but every content creator is already limiting their talents on this game. While doing everything they can to supply good quality stuff and trying to keep it as 2007 friendly as possible.

If this game still had the original community style of modelling i can promise you that you wouldn't be having this conversation right now as the game would be long gone. Nobody wants to play a game that looks like MM2 in 2020.

[jlv]

LODs are just a fact of life it you want good framerates. There's nothing I can do to make it fast on bloated models aside from having the game create lower LODs by automatically decimating the models. I admit I've considered it but if you want that you can just create the LODs by decimating in Blender.

From testing, I've noticed lag spikes from LOD popping, any idea what's up with that? It's the main reason why personally I've avoided it. It doesn't take much more effort to create a lower LOD, I just don't want to add any extra lag.

I've never experienced that. Is this something you can reproduce?

...update the shaders to do all lighting with environment maps.

I think this is the main reason why we see such "bloated" models. We all want to keep up with AAA games such as MVA or MXGP. We aren't even close visually from a model standpoint, even though if you look closely in comparison, our models typically blow theres out of the water. Most likely it's due to being behind the curve on lighting, The amount of talent that comes out of this community is insane, and I can only imagine what we'll see with a graphics update. I know it's a poor excuse to blame the game on making our models high poly, or use high resolution textures, but honestly, it's the only thing that gets us close to other games.

("Decal drop" will be very very beneficial to the game as well :D)

Pro modelers are pros because they do more with less. I know there's been more than one time I've taken a close look at something in a AAA game that I thought was hundreds of polygons only to realize it was just 2 triangles and an amazing normal map. Those guys are experts on knowing where they need real geometry and where they can fake it by baking it.

[ddmx]

Where did you read this? That isn't at all what JLV has said.

Some time ago someone asked about getting more modern graphics features that weren't possible in this game. Since when did facts matter? I just gave alternate facts. Now I'm gonna go slam handfuls of hydroxychloroquin and inject disinfectant while drinking bleach. Facts!

lol you got me to laugh for once.

since jeremy can't have a conversation without getting offended and upset, ill just post this here.
The original commmunity on mx simulator was a group of extremely talented modelers and skinners who limited themselves to create low poly objects for the greater good of the game. the goal was best performance while seeking as close to visual realism. original modelers optimized the process by using skins and eventually shaders. these are details that are usually scattered about the bike now (like these details no one really cares about besides the rendering community). when jlv calls models 'bloated' this is what he is talking about. even JRE's rider model uses ~5k more poly's than its predecessor (which added is 200k in rider models from a full gate).. this is why iracing models are extremely low poly yet they are still a growing fan base because of the racing available.

if you want to play render simulator, go for it. im looking for good gameplay.

+1

[ddmx]

LODs are just a fact of life it you want good framerates. There's nothing I can do to make it fast on bloated models aside from having the game create lower LODs by automatically decimating the models. I admit I've considered it but if you want that you can just create the LODs by decimating in Blender.

From testing, I've noticed lag spikes from LOD popping, any idea what's up with that? It's the main reason why personally I've avoided it. It doesn't take much more effort to create a lower LOD, I just don't want to add any extra lag.

I've never experienced that. Is this something you can reproduce?

...update the shaders to do all lighting with environment maps.

I think this is the main reason why we see such "bloated" models. We all want to keep up with AAA games such as MVA or MXGP. We aren't even close visually from a model standpoint, even though if you look closely in comparison, our models typically blow theres out of the water. Most likely it's due to being behind the curve on lighting, The amount of talent that comes out of this community is insane, and I can only imagine what we'll see with a graphics update. I know it's a poor excuse to blame the game on making our models high poly, or use high resolution textures, but honestly, it's the only thing that gets us close to other games.

("Decal drop" will be very very beneficial to the game as well )

Pro modelers are pros because they do more with less. I know there's been more than one time I've taken a close look at something in a AAA game that I thought was hundreds of polygons only to realize it was just 2 triangles and an amazing normal map. Those guys are experts on knowing where they need real geometry and where they can fake it by baking it.

Also +1

10 years later did I just agree with jonesy??

[Jeremy150]

Absolutely.



I'd probably estimate theirs is 10x the poly count, considering my structure uses 4 sided bars, and theirs is using 6 sided, plus plenty of extra geometry for the bars to connect. But that's how it should be, we don't have as powerful of as engine as of right now. I'm not arguing that our models are too high poly, I'm arguing that other games can get away with way less model/texture detail due to better lighting/postprocessing/etc.

[Jones221]

10 years later did I just agree with jonesy??

Thank you for dusting off the keyboard, I needed some support from originators of content creation. New guys get sensitive to the topic.

[ColtonD719]

I just want to be able to do this: https://youtu.be/FzoY062kY1s?t=1503
instead of this: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=46219



Oh, and rider/bike shadows.

[aeffertz]

Baseless facts on poly counts and looking back at old creators with rose colored glasses implying computers haven't improved in 7 years.

Am I pro? Absolutely not and I have never claimed to be. This is the strangest argument I have ever read. Are the bikes higher poly than they were 6 years ago? Yes but computers have also gotten much better since then and the bigger point is that they are mods after all. These aren't models that are necessary or even included in the purchase of the game. If you dont like the new models, run the stock models. Don't like the stock models, run some from whatever creator you do like. How hard is that? Oh wait, you want to have the latest and greatest the moment it's released made by people who are self taught and are still learning and improving. To say I don't keep poly count in mind when making my models is just a blatant, faceless lie.

"Triple A titles use lower poly models" Are you sure?



Everything I make or anyone else makes for this game is optional. rF tracks offer versions with all the models removed and also high res versions of the track if you have a strong PC. I would strongly argue new models and textures and skins keep people interested in this game, right behind a well ran professional racing series.

Here's a triple A title low poly of a goggle they use compared to mine. I just found this and did not use it as a reference when making mine.Look at how similar the poly flow is. Again, I know I'm not pro and have never claimed to be pro, I just do this as a hobby, but the poly flow of the model made by the professional and the one I made look SHOCKINGLY similar, damn near identical. In fact, mine is even lower poly BECAUSE I PAY ATTENTION knowing how old this game engine is. My point here is look at the professionals poly flow and look at my poly flow. I feel like I have a pretty good, or at least decent, understanding of how to make a game model and keep the poly count down.




If you want a comparison to an old creator, I just made essentially the same neck brace benji made 5 years ago and it turned out to have less polys than the one he made! Again, please tell me how I'm doing so much worse than those before me?

Lastly Jones, if you are not knowledgeable on a topic, don't speak on it. Your baseless criticism is not only idiotic but demotivating. I just gave you two random examples of a triple A professional and your favorite MX Sim professional p2sta. I'm just a regular dude that works a full time job and sinks countless hours of my free time into my models to make them as accurate as I can while keeping it an efficient game ready model, just to keep this game fresh. Honestly if the stuff that I'm doing and making is hurting the game, I will stop right now. I care about this game and the racing scene. If what I'm doing is only ruining it, then I will bow out and someone who is more capable can gladly take my place. No wonder your favorite creators of yesteryear have quit making sim content and left you empty handed. Nothing is ever fucking good enough. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T USE IT. How hard is that? I don't want or need PMs from you telling me I suck and need to be better either you fucking asshole.

[WellsMX524]

I just want to be able to do this: https://youtu.be/FzoY062kY1s?t=1503
instead of this: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=46219



Oh, and rider/bike shadows.

I would also like to be able to just click and BAM environment. Trying to randomize trees/vegetation on my compound was a massive chore.

[Quinten]

Lastly Jones, if you are not knowledgeable on a topic, don't speak on it. Your baseless criticism is not only idiotic but demotivating. I just gave you two random examples of a triple A professional and your favorite MX Sim professional p2sta. I'm just a regular dude that works a full time job and sinks countless hours of my free time into my models to make them as accurate as I can while keeping it an efficient game ready model, just to keep this game fresh. Honestly if the stuff that I'm doing and making is hurting the game, I will stop right now. I care about this game and the racing scene. If what I'm doing is only ruining it, then I will bow out and someone who is more capable can gladly take my place. No wonder your favorite creators of yesteryear have quit making sim content and left you empty handed. Nothing is ever fucking good enough. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T USE IT. How hard is that? I don't want or need PMs from you telling me I suck and need to be better either you fucking asshole.

Hey man, I still love you

[Jones221]

I never said you suck or to be better. I apologized for talking about the face of the one helmet then sent the same message I posted (prior to posting) just to share something I’ve noticed. Even said I love what your group is doing for the game in the pm. Purely sharing some data I collected and was hoping to find a resolution/lead to a discussion on it.

[TeamHavocRacing]

...limited themselves to create low poly (*cough*free*cough*) objects (*cough*Wilson's Honda*cough*)for the greater good of the game..(and)..good gameplay.

[Jeremy150]

Professional model vs. Amateur bloated model

[Atom6246]

Modelers, and track makers are the unsung hero's of this game. Never get the credit they deserve and the reason it's still going to this day. I feel as the years pass, the more content creators are thinned out. Without them, this game is DEAD. A game basically ran by it's community.

As far as my opinion goes, I wish JLV gave them more tools to work with. Not only would it make the game better, but would also inspire new people to try something for themselves. Which ultimately, would patch MX Simulator's life span for multiple years. I'm not asking for a full game revamp either, just SOMETHING. Something to show us potential.

But as Colton linked, who want's to try and learn all that when we know theirs more simple and efficient methods out there?

I don't want to get started on optimization, but that should be a higher priority than animated flaggers. Kellen can't even load into a single gate every 1st restart. Is that not a problem? People with high end gaming PC's struggling, but animated flaggers gets put first before that?

[ddmx]

Baseless facts on poly counts and looking back at old creators with rose colored glasses implying computers haven't improved in 7 years.
...

This is possibly a bit of an overreaction given the context of the post.

You have to remember that when an 'old guy' starts talking about poly count and texture size, most likely they came from the days of modding MVA Unleashed where it was low poly count or nothing and texture size for skins was something like 512x512 at a max (and you needed to make texture LOD's as well). Resolutions were so low back then that good content was a literal art form (jvdl, gala, etc).

Take any comment about a bloated model as a personal challenge to always be striving to get the same quality out of less.

Modelers, and track makers are the unsung hero's of this game. Never get the credit they deserve and the reason it's still going to this day. I feel as the years pass, the more content creators are thinned out. Without them, this game is DEAD. A game basically ran by it's community.

As far as my opinion goes, I wish JLV gave them more tools to work with. Not only would it make the game better, but would also inspire new people to try something for themselves. Which ultimately, would patch MX Simulator's life span for multiple years. I'm not asking for a full game revamp either, just SOMETHING. Something to show us potential.

But as Colton linked, who want's to try and learn all that when we know theirs more simple and efficient methods out there?

I don't want to get started on optimization, but that should be a higher priority than animated flaggers. Kellen can't even load into a single gate every 1st restart. Is that not a problem? People with high end gaming PC's struggling, but animated flaggers gets put first before that?

In a lot of ways I agree that content creators are the backbone of MX Simulator. However, to infer that JLV hasn't provided enough tools for creators wouldn't be inaccurate (sure, there isn't a standalone track editor).

The platform that MX Simulator is built on is the single greatest 'tool' the game provides. It's about as open source as any video game can get. If you don't believe me then try making mods for a AAA title where file formats are wonky and you need to decrypt everything using 3rd party tools. Aside from what's hard coded, nearly every visual aspect of the game is incredibly easy to alter. The hardest part of getting a new model into the game is learning how to use Blender.

As far as tools, I'd also suggest that some of the 'tools' he's provided over the years have been normal maps, environment sounds, animation, and many others. None of those existed in 2007 and a decent bit of the game you see today is driven by not only JLV's vision but also the Suggestion Box on these forums.