Transmission model

[Phathry25]

Can we get an improvement to the transmission model to disallow full throttle shifting? Nothing worse than being able to bang gears while railing whoops. Well I guess it's a good thing, but it kinda ruins the simulator part of the game for me.

[yFMX]

You can shift gears when you're full throttle in real life. It just depends of the rpm's. If it's too high you won't be able to shift gears. Also, in real life you shouldn't be full throttle in the whoops. You better shift 1 or 2 gears higher than you normally would be to keep rpm's low in the whoops. You don't shift gears in whoops because you have your feet way back on the pegs so you can't reach the shifter.

[Phathry25]

We're both aware of the shortcomings of the current transmission/shifting model. Why be a smartass towards me?

[ddmx]

The only idea I had would be to implement a system such as that in LFS. If you don't use the clutch while shifting (or let off the gas) then you start to lose your clutch (at a faster rate than in real life to compensate for short races). That would force people to either let off to shift, or use the clutch. No more wide open shifting.

[yFMX]

I don't want to be a smartass and I'm sorry if you thought that way. I just wanted to explain some things, that's it.
Sure there are some things like shifting when your left foot is off the pegs that need/could be fixed. I was just saying that some of the stuff you said were actually possible in real life.

[yzmxer608]

David's idea (or LFS') is probably the best, like he said the clutch overheats if you don't let off when shifting. When that happens your car doesn't go anywhere. We would just need an indicator to let us know how the clutch is.

[Pumaxcs]

Wouldn't your bikes speed and capabilities be enough of a indicator?

[yzmxer608]

You wouldn't know how close you are though, but I guess you don't in real life.

[Phathry25]

I don't want to be a smartass and I'm sorry if you thought that way. I just wanted to explain some things, that's it.
Sure there are some things like shifting when your left foot is off the pegs that need/could be fixed. I was just saying that some of the stuff you said were actually possible in real life.

Alright sorry dude. Must be the language barrier at work here.

I might be wrong here, but not being able to shift while wide open actually is caused by the load on the transmission, and not the rpm of the motor. Therefor you still wouldn't be able to do it at low RPM's. I know I've click a gear up during a panic rev in real life, damn MXS teaching me bad habits... lol

It's not that I want to be able to burn up my MXS clutch, it's just no good that you can rail a corner in 1st gear charge into the whoops then begin shifting up and keep accelerating through the whoops. In real life you would either have to change into a higher gear in the corner or have to back off before the whoops to change gears. I've been tossing around the idea of a "hardcore" series, (no auto clutch, fixed camera view) but it still seems silly when you can do all these things still.

[jlv]

I agree with you on the whoops. Not because the transmission couldn't take it, but because there's no way you could get your toe under the shifter while you're hammering whoops. My main concern would be that it wouldn't be apparent why it wasn't shifting and people might think there was a problem with the game.

[Phathry25]

Add onto the auto clutch feature so it engages the clutch and allows shifting.

[yFMX]

I might be wrong here, but not being able to shift while wide open actually is caused by the load on the transmission, and not the rpm of the motor. Therefor you still wouldn't be able to do it at low RPM's. I know I've click a gear up during a panic rev in real life, damn MXS teaching me bad habits... lol

Yea you're right. And it's not a bad habit if it keeps you on 2 wheels!

I agree with you on the whoops. Not because the transmission couldn't take it, but because there's no way you could get your toe under the shifter while you're hammering whoops. My main concern would be that it wouldn't be apparent why it wasn't shifting and people might think there was a problem with the game.

Maybe track makers could use gates like the timing gates. You put one at the beginning and one at the end of the whoops. Those gates would disable shifting at a certain speed. That way I think it would be pretty obvious why you can't shift.

[rideblue56]

i really like the idea from LFS.

Add onto the auto clutch feature so it engages the clutch and allows shifting.

maybe i misunderstood... but wouldn't that put us right back where we are now? lol

My main concern would be that it wouldn't be apparent why it wasn't shifting and people might think there was a problem with the game.

i dont think it would take someone very long to figure out that its the whoops causing it. (assuming their IQ is above 40..) and if they dont figure it out, they'll just post on the forum and get raged at, and get answered.

[Phathry25]

Add onto the auto clutch feature so it engages the clutch and allows shifting.

maybe i misunderstood... but wouldn't that put us right back where we are now? lol

If you are a wussy and use auto clutch, then yes you'd still be sitting the same. If you're a total badass like me then, no, you'd have to manually operate the clutch to shift.

I don't like the LFS idea TBH. In LFS they use the auto clutch, so when you press to button to change gears the game engages the clutch for you and shifts the gear while you are still WFO, and in turn it heats up the clutch, eventually making it fail. On a MX bike you can bang gears like that all day long and not get the clutch hot.

[JETZcorp]

I think the transmission should be handled fairly simply. As far as shifting under throttle, it's all about the torque load on the gear dogs. Simply have MXS figure out what the load is (surely the game is already doing torque calculations constantly) and at a certain load, simply stop the bike from being able to shift. Hitting the clutch will reduce the load, letting off the power will reduce the load, etc. That way, it's just like real life.

As for physically moving the shifter, I say make it like the rider fall-off model. Have the game detect when the bike is doing all sort of violent things (like in the whoops) and at a certain point, just don't allow the shift. When the rider's foot is way out in a turn, make it so that when the player commands a shift, the leg comes back to the shifter and makes the shift. This will have all the weight transfer effects that it would in real life, and make the player put strategy into his shift. If the bike really really needs to be shifted, it can be done, but it'd probably be best to wait another half-second until the turn is done. That kind of thing.

Whenever there's a choice between giving the illusion of simulation, and creating an actual simulation, the latter must always be chosen over the former for MXS.